What is cold water extraction for codeine

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Written: 12/7/09 7:59 PM
last changed: 11.08.18 17:42 by Pharmer (changed a total of 4 times)Edit from Pharmer: This collective thread is about the extraction of codeine from codeine combination preparations. You can ask general questions about the usual procedures and related problems or other questions, and of course you can also discuss experiences with them.

From a purely technical point of view, such instructions are actually prohibited by the forum rule, which says that it must not be explained here how a non-narcotic drug is made into a narcotic (codeine + paracetamol combinations have an exception in the Narcotics Act and are therefore only subject to prescription Codeine as a pure substance, on the other hand, is subject to the BtmG), but we have made an exception here, as it is primarily about safer use.
If you want to post extraction instructions for other substances / preparations where the case is similar in your eyes, please ask the moderator before you post them.


A little introduction to this:

Codeine and paracetamol are combined in some cold and pain relievers because they work a bit synergistically and can actually fight pain much better than either substance alone. In the case of severe colds, the paracetamol also has a fever-lowering effect, while the codeine is an excellent cough suppressant for dry coughs. From a medical point of view, these preparations are therefore absolutely recommendable and sensible, and with the correct dosage they are almost completely harmless, which is why they are very often prescribed, especially during the flu season.

So it happens quite often that you come across such a pack in your parents' medicine cabinet or that you are prescribed it because of an illness. Of course, quite a few people get the idea to use these preparations for intoxication purposes because of the codeine - and this is exactly where the problem begins, which this thread is about.

Why should I bother extracting the codeine from the tablets? Can't I just take the tablets like that?

In the correct dosage, paracetamol is a very reliable and safe remedy for fever and mild pain. Many rightly swear by it, because it is an indispensable part of medicine, especially for infants and toddlers with a cold and fever.

However, it is broken down by the liver and puts a massive strain on it in higher doses. Normal doses are no problem even over a longer period of time - as long as no alcohol is drunk with it - but a very high dose can have acute hepatic toxicity and cause the liver to collapse even if consumed once. Often you read that the danger only starts from a single dose of 10g, but I would be very careful with this information. Anyone who takes other drugs or medication may have an already stressed liver, some people simply have a weaker liver than others.

Since the codeine in these preparations is often very low, the paracetamol in very high doses and opioids, especially in the long run, almost automatically induce high doses, these combinations have really killed many people - or at least destroyed their livers in such a way that a donor liver had to be found . You absolutely cannot rely on the latter, which is why you shouldn't take any risks. Is a pretty important organ, even minor damage can severely limit your further life.

So it is important to separate the paracetamol (and the remaining tablet excipients) from the codeine, how best to do this is to be explained and discussed here in this thread.


Are there any disadvantages?

Not really, actually. Of course, as with any extraction, a small part of the codeine will be lost, but with the simplest method, the loss of substance is really quite small.

Especially with preparations that contain more than 30 mg codeine and 500 mg paracetamol or less, it would be quite possible to take 2 or 3 tablets as they are - without opioid tolerance this is enough for a slight intoxication, and up to 2 g paracetamol is usually Already to get over it - but as I said, one thing leads to another very quickly, you actually don't want to have the paracetamol on - so do yourself a favor and make the effort. It really isn't a lot of work.

Ideally, you not only process the single dose you want to take in one evening, but also all the tablets you have - so the thing is done without a lot of extra effort and you can't even get weak for a moment if you want to take more than originally planned.

So much for the introduction, I hope you enjoy the discussion. The post below is from the original thread creator.




Hi
Can someone please tell me if I did it right:
I had tablets with 500 mg paracetamol and 30 mg codeine phosphate hemihydrate. I let it stand in cold water for 5 minutes every now and then and then put it in a coffee filter to dissolve the paracetamol. I drank the rest (what went through the coffee filter) and tasted pretty bitter.
That's why I drank some hot tea. Were 5 tablets, so about 150 mg codeine phosphate hemihydrate. But it didn't work. Did I do something wrong?

Possibly because I drank hot or warm tea, was the codeine destroyed? I'm overwhelmed. What was my mistake?

Was that the right thing to do with cold water extraction?

Thanks in advance!
 Comment from Pharmer (moderator), Time: 08/11/2018 5:42 PM

Clovenhoof: I once made the title meaningful.

Pharmer: Startpost extended by an introduction.
 
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Written: 12/7/09 8:35 PM
last changed: 07.12.09 20:35 by kiffikiffi (changed a total of 1 times) did you finely grind the tabs beforehand? and at kwe it is important to use the right amount of water, if you take n half a liter you can leave it the same ... in 500ml of water 7g paracetamol dissolve ...

I mean I would have calculated for 300mg codi times 33ml of water ... and then there are still 500mg para in there so not too much.

greeting
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Written: 12/7/09 9:09 PM Thanks for your answer. Yes, something has already been fetched to me in the chat, but it is not wrong to briefly discuss it again here, then everyone will benefit from it.

I didn't know about the water, but I took very little. They were already shredded, they were capsules.
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Written: 12/11/09 11:03 AM
last changed: 11.12.09 11:05 by jeno77 (changed a total of 1 times) So ... I am of the opinion that my cold water extraction hadn't brought anything, the paracetamol was still in. Had dragging in legs, joint and muscle pain for 3 days ...

I checked it and I guess I have about ~ 30-80 ml (unfortunately I can't say exactly, can only guess) of water used for 3 tablets (i.e. 1500 mg paracetamol and 90 mg codeine). Was that too much water?

How do you calculate how much water you need?

Thanks.
 
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Written: 12/11/09 11:17 AM One looks at how much water a best. Amount of codeine and acetaminophen is soluble.
Since codeine is quite soluble in water, and paracetamol is rather poor, you have to take just as much water that (mathematically) all of the codeine dissolves. A negligible part still remains in solution. That would be the best codi-para ratio.
With you, I assume that you simply took way too much water and a lot of paraceta was in solution as a result.

So take a look at Wikipedia or Pubchem for the solubility. Then you do the math. Is not difficult.
If you can't do it, write again, then do the math tonight and write it down here.
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Written: 12/11/09 11:56 AM
last changed: 11.12.09 11:57 by jeno77 (changed a total of 1 times) Thanks!

Paracetamol:
Water: 14 g · l -1 (20 ° C) What does the power of -1 mean, is it important?

Codeine:
Water: 9000 mg l -1 (20 ° C)

Does it have to be 20 ° C, I used very cold water, was that a mistake too?
How long do I have to leave this in the water before I put this through a coffee filter?

I now have 5 tablets left (a total of 2500 mg paracetamol and 150 mg codeine).

Then 150 mg of codeine should dissolve in 16.6 ml of water, right?
232 mg of paracetamol should still be in the solution, right?

Thanks!
 
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Written: 12/11/09 14:58 That’s true with the codeine. I didn't expect that with the paracetamol. But flipping your head, it works.
Up to 500 mg, I do not consider paracetamol to be dangerous if consumed occasionally.
150 mg of codeine should also be quite beneficial.
20 degrees is (almost) room temperature, if the temperature deviates, the solubility also deviates. This means that when it is colder it dissolves less.
At 5 degrees it doesn't make a big difference here. Just take normal tap water, of course distilled water would be best - but tap water is also possible. Put it in the glass for another half an hour, and then it will surely have a value similar to room temperature.
So 16.6 ml should go. When you don't have a syringe or something. Take a small shot glass (they often have lines on the 2 cl border) and take almost 2 cl. That should be about right. So you can see that your previous attempt was screwed up, you certainly had 99% dissolved codeine but also a high proportion of paracetamol.

Leave the crushed tablets in the water for half an hour and stir well. It won't do any harm because acetaminophen can no longer dissolve, however the solubility of codeine is more complete.

Oh yes, g * l ^ -1 means nothing else than g / l, ie "grams per liter". Since l ^ -1 can also be written like this: 1 / l therefore "one through liter". Multiplied by g results in 1g / l and the "multiplied by one" omitted results in "g / l" or even "g * l ^ -1"

Have fun.
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Written: 12/11/09 4:04 PM
last changed: 11.12.09 16:04 by jeno77 (changed a total of 1 times) All right, thank you King!

Then hopefully this time it will be a great success! * I'm looking forward to *

Best regards :-)

____
edit
____

I'm an idiot -.-

I have codeine phosphate hemihydrate. wikipedia: Codeine phosphate hemihydrate 400 mg / ml. But that's positive. Then I only need half a milliliter and there is also less paracetamol in it. But there is no temperature ... mhh then I'll just take 20 degrees.

Can someone tell out of experience whether codeine phosphate hemihydrate works better or worse? (In my defense: someone in the chat told me a few days ago it works worse, but various sites claim it works better)
 
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Written: 12/11/09 5:55 PM Well, you just need more than codeine which is not in salt form. However, I think it's mostly the hemihydrate on the market anyway. It makes no difference either, all the "weak" salts are converted from gastric (hydrochloric) acid to codeine hydrochloride. Therefore, what you have in your stomach is the same, regardless of whether you have opium (that's where the codeine is attached to the anion of the meconic acid) or codeine hemihydrate. Everything in the stomach becomes codeine HCL and the hydrochloride salt is then absorbed in the intestines.
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HIV, does that come from H i.v. ? "Thread creator"
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Written: 12/11/09 6:52 PM OK, and why does it happen so often when it is converted again in the stomach anyway?

But that I need less than half a milliliter of water to dissolve the codeine .. right?

Have a nice relaxing evening!
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Written: 12/14/09 2:08 PM So I push the thread up again, because of the last two questions or at least the one with the water.
I know I'm annoying, but just think it could be worse ^^
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Written: 12/16/09 3:03 PM Nonsense!

Cold water extraction cannot work at all. Paracetamol dissolves better in water than codeine!
 
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Written: 12/16/09 6:59 PM Who has told you that? He wasn't sober.
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Written: 12/16/09 7:11 PM
last changed: 12/16/09 7:11 PM by jeno77 (changed 1 times in total)
Who has told you that? He wasn't sober.



Paracetamol:
Water: 14 g l -1 (20 ° C)

Codeine:
Water: 9000 mg l -1 (20 ° C)


14 g of the pcm dissolve in one liter of water.
9 g of codeine dissolve in one liter of water.

I think Wikipedia is sober ^^
 
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Written: 12/16/09 7:32 PM Wikipedia can also be wrong, after all, it was only written by people ;-)

So, judging from my experience, you can definitely get the paracetamol out with a CWE, otherwise there would have been some problems with my 300mg codeine (would have been 5g Pcm after all).
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