Why is formalin dangerous in fish?

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Formalin and plastic?

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Formalin and plastic?

of Madness » 28.04.2018 20:34

Hello!
I'm Mario from Vienna, 32 years old and I don't have a discus but a 900 liter AQ with Malawis.
Since there are many experts here, I turn to you here, I hope I will still be helped even if I have no discs. :)
My fish have had major gill worm problems for several months.
After weeks of 2-day WW and other measures to optimize the conditions, I can no longer and do not want to watch.
A 3-time treatment with Sera Tremazol brought nothing at all.
You choke, cough, spit, tremble, and still chew.
If the animals could live with it, I wouldn't do anything, but they really rub themselves extremely often and suffer from it.
Another one every 10 seconds (without exaggerating !!! sometimes several at the same time), and they scrub themselves several times in a row and always in the area of ​​the gills .. Meanwhile 4 fish have not eaten anything for weeks and the first one died today.
Now I've been thinking for a long time whether formalin or chloramine T. I'll get fresh formalin on Thursday.
Unfortunately, I can only treat in the main pool. The facility consists of 20 pieces of artificial stones that are hollow inside and artificial plants. That comes out of course, because it is made of plastic and also because the formalin would not achieve everything I think, the stones are very angled inside.

Now I have several questions. Can I treat the stones in the bathtub with 1.5 times the dose of formalin and then rinse them off or is there a risk that something toxic will damage the fish because the formalin has reacted with the plastic?
I want to fill the tubes with hydrogen peroxide and make them clean. Does it work? And how should I do that exactly?
Or would it be that I put the stones in the open at 80 degrees and thus destroy the gill worms plus eggs, or is the plastic melting?
I don't want to let it dry for 6 weeks because I need the stones again quickly.
And I'm also afraid that the stones won't dry 100 percent, precisely because they are so angular.

Please help me! I am grateful for all answers!

Kind regards,
Mario

P.S. And please no comments like, "one only treats after a microscopic examination". I am safe and will handle.
Madness
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Re: formalin and plastic?

of Ioan C. » 28.04.2018 23:42

Hello Mario, new ideas and experiences come with people from far away, so be welcome to join us, even if you don't care for windows.
To be honest, I don't even know why my fish are not tormented by worms.
I used to have big problems with this strain, however. The formalin is still in the cupboard.
It is actually the only remedy that, in an acute emergency, makes short work of the dung-lovers.
Unfortunately, the worms are not that easy to eradicate, even with several treatments in a row. Their eggs stick to the fish's gills, which prevents extinction even if the fish are moved to clean containers after each treatment.
If you want to be successful, you have to pay extreme attention to every detail. The eggs survive the treatment and hatch after different periods of time, which, for example, depend on temperature and brightness.
I would almost say that a 3-time treatment should be enough, but I know exactly how wrong such a statement is.
They came back to me again and again after a few weeks. And I never even had sand or decoration in the pool.
65 ° C is enough to destroy worms and eggs. But that's a limit that you shouldn't cross, because afterwards at least some plastic parts deform. The hoses can be rinsed at 80 ° C. Don't run a pump in hot water!
I'm just writing it to be on the safe side: the glass must be heated evenly, evenly, up to the upper edge, otherwise tensions will arise that can later lead to breakage. The glass bridges too!
As I write, I notice how little I am convinced that such a disinfection is necessary. I couldn't get rid of the worms.
They are most likely still on my fish, but the fish are not bothered by it.
Maybe it will bring more if you treat once, and then try to reduce their number by changing water, UV-C, more oxygen, less fish, which is also a stupid statement because my offspring have no problems either, although the pool is overcrowded.
14 8cm discus in 100 L breathe calmly and calmly and nobody gets angry or behaves conspicuously. It is also possible that they have no worms because I raised them artificially and changed all the water, approx. 0.5-1L, several times / day in the first few days after hatching.
But I didn't treat them with formalin, not even with anything else.
Formalin and some types of plastic, don't know exactly which ones, but not polyethylene, poison the water! It only happened once to me, so be careful!

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Re: formalin and plastic?

of Manni » 29.04.2018 00:11

Hello Marco, get acquainted with Dieter Untergasser's treatment method for gill worms (googl). It is about the use of the disinfectant Chloramin-T. Absolutely deadly to gill worms. And harmless if you follow the necessary procedure. With hard water, high KH, pH value over 7.5, as desired by Malawis, the best remedy against the gill flukes. Difficult for discus, complete water change necessary. Otherwise poisonous. GREETING Manfred
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Re: formalin and plastic?

of Madness » 29.04.2018 15:57

Ioan C. wrote:Hello Mario, new ideas and experiences come with people from far away, so be welcome to join us, even if you don't care for windows.
To be honest, I don't know why my fish are not tormented by worms.
I used to have big problems with this strain. The formalin is still in the cupboard.
It is actually the only remedy that, in an acute emergency, makes short work of the dung-lovers.
Unfortunately, the worms are not that easy to eradicate, even with several treatments in a row. Their eggs stick to the fish's gills, which prevents extinction even if the fish are moved to clean containers after each treatment.
If you want to be successful, you have to pay extreme attention to every detail. The eggs survive the treatment and hatch after different periods of time, which, for example, depend on temperature and brightness.
I would almost say that a 3-time treatment should be enough, but I know exactly how wrong such a statement is.
They came back to me again and again after a few weeks. And I never even had sand or decoration in the pool.
65 ° C is enough to destroy worms and eggs. But that is a limit that should not be exceeded, because afterwards at least some plastic parts deform. The hoses can be rinsed at 80 ° C. Don't run a pump in hot water!
I'm just writing it to be on the safe side: the glass must be heated evenly and evenly, up to the upper edge, otherwise tensions will arise that can later lead to breakage. The glass bridges too!
As I write, I notice how little I am convinced that such a disinfection is necessary. I couldn't get rid of the worms that way.
They are most likely still on my fish, but the fish are not bothered by it.
Maybe it will bring more if you treat once, and then try to reduce their number by changing water, UV-C, more oxygen, less fish, which is also a stupid statement because my offspring have no problems either, although the pool is overcrowded.
14 8cm discus in 100 L breathe calmly and calmly and nobody gets angry or behaves conspicuously. It is also possible that they have no worms because I raised them artificially and changed all the water, approx. 0.5-1L, several times a day in the first few days after hatching.
But I didn't treat them with formalin, not even with anything else.
Formalin and some types of plastic, don't know exactly which ones, but not polyethylene, poison the water! It only happened once to me, so be careful!



Hello,
thank you for the detailed answer. It's not very encouraging. You read all the time that this is a method to eradicate the worms 100 percent, that they keep coming back through the eggs ... that's exactly what I didn't want to read.
So do you think I could just put the plastic stones in the oven at 65 degrees? How long would they have to be heated? And I also don't know how to set the temperature on the oven, I have no display ...
Could I then possibly also put the hoses in the oven? Because even then I don't know how to control that the water is 80 degrees ...
And another important question: How can I best make my cover panes worm-free? Placing in the basin is ruled out. I would like to just wipe them off
would alcohol be suitable or should something more aggressive be found?

Kind regards,
Mario
Madness
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Re: formalin and plastic?

of Ioan C. » 30.04.2018 13:16

Hello Mario,
Mario wrote: You read all the time that this is a method to eradicate the worms 100 percent, that they keep coming back through the eggs ... that's exactly what I didn't want to read.
A few years ago (10-15?) There was "Moneol", which was claimed to kill eggs. Haven't heard or read about it after that. It probably doesn't exist anymore. Like everything that was once too good, otherwise you wouldn't need any more when the worms are exterminated. Soon we will pay more every year when we buy trees because they are getting bigger.
Mario wrote:So do you think I could just put the plastic stones in the oven at 65 degrees? How long would they have to be heated? And I also don't know how to set the temperature on the oven, I have no display ...
I not only have a precision laboratory thermometer, but at least 3-4, for different temperature ranges. Can't you treat yourself to one? They're all swimming around in the bay!
Mario wrote:Could I then possibly also put the hoses in the oven? Because even then I don't know how to control that the water is 80 degrees ...
I don't know at what temperature the hoses melt, but I can guarantee you that you can cook them for 5 minutes without hesitation.
However, they should be laid straight before cooling, otherwise they will remain spiral-shaped if you leave them in the saucepan to cool for a few hours.
Mario wrote:And another important question: How can I best make my cover panes worm-free? Placing in the pool is ruled out. I would like to just wipe them off
would alcohol be suitable or do you need something more aggressive?
So, ... I would be a bit more rabid, for example. Think about it, ... which worm, or egg of it, would still be hanging on the window after washing the dishes with "Pril" and a sponge?
Of course, the method cannot be used on the aquarium because there are gaps between the glass pane and the silicone seam that cannot be reached with the sponge.

Ioan C.
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Re: formalin and plastic?

of Madness » 30.04.2018 18:47

Hello Ioan!

Yes, I've already ordered an oven thermometer, but today I found out from a cook that the temperature in the oven can be very different, the cake burns in the front and the back is raw .....
That is also worthless if I cannot be sure whether there was enough heat everywhere. Well maybe I can test that with the thermometer. Unfortunately, they shouldn't be particularly precise either.

One thing is still on my mind: I would like to mix a formalin solution in the bathtub and then put the stones in the tub, so that the agent gets into all the cracks and corners more easily than when they are already filled with water in the aquarium. I would still let the stones dry out afterwards and or heat them.
I could also disinfect the hose this way.
Now, with formalin in connection with plastic, toxic compounds can arise. Do you think the danger is still there afterwards in the aquarium if I have properly washed out the stones and the hoses?
Because that way I could do everything nicely with my liter of formalin ......

Kind regards,
Mario
Madness
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Re: formalin and plastic?

of W Flames » 30.04.2018 21:41

Hello. Bring an animal to Oliver Hochwartner (specialist veterinarian for fish), he is a very nice one and is guaranteed to help you, talk to him on the tape and he will call you back, he will examine an animal then you will be certain. Greetings from WF Lammchen
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Re: formalin and plastic?

of Ioan C. » 01.05.2018 10:36

Hello Mario,
Mario wrote:Yes, I have already ordered an oven thermometer, but today I heard from a cook that the temperature in the oven can be very different, the cake burns in the front and it is raw in the back .....
That is worthless if I can't be sure if there was enough heat everywhere. Well maybe I can test that with the thermometer. Unfortunately, they shouldn't be particularly precise either.
Maybe at your age I didn't know some of what we're talking about now, but I know it now, and I can give you some advice because it has proven itself: if you don't know how to do it, try it first to learn, otherwise it can get really expensive every now and then, even if it doesn't cost any money.
Oven thermometers are there to give the impression that something is under control.
Unfortunately it is false!
The hand probably measures the temperature more precisely, that was a waste of money.
On the other hand, some ovens have a fan that circulates the air in the oven. The function is called "circulating air".
When I bake my baguettes with this function, they are always beautifully cross and golden yellow over the entire surface.
Mario wrote:One thing is still on my mind: I would like to mix a formalin solution in the bathtub and then put the stones in the tub, so that the agent gets into all the cracks and corners more easily than when they are already filled with water in the aquarium. I would still let the stones dry out afterwards and or heat them.
I could also disinfect the hose this way.
As mentioned: the eggs don't mind!
In addition, before you handle formalin, you should find out what kind of water you are dealing with.
After you have experienced it, you will hopefully completely lose the desire to do so.
Unless you want to experience first-hand how chemotherapy (or several) works.
Mario wrote:Now, when formalin is used in conjunction with plastic, toxic compounds can arise. Do you think the danger is still there afterwards in the aquarium if I have properly washed out the stones and the hoses?
No. Formaldehyde is biodegradable and any toxic residues would not be concentrated enough to be dangerous.
Let stand a few days and then change all the water should be enough.
(The eggs hatch anyway!)
Mario wrote:Because that way I could do everything nicely with my liter of formalin ......
I wouldn't have the courage to leave 1L formalin free in the house, not even diluted it.

Ioan C.
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Re: formalin and plastic?

of Madness » 01.05.2018 22:53

Hello!
Yes, that's right, my oven also has the fan-assisted function, it will be best. Well, the thermometer will probably go back then, so at least I've saved money.
I will let the stones dry out for over 4 weeks. I've already got everything out today and I like it and the fish are empty too ...
I'm not sure about the formalin and Cloramin T is already on the way and should also arrive on Friday. Takes just one more day .....
The "risk of cancer" is also not that great and I am also concerned about whether my two external filters are made of resistant plastic?
With the Eheim it shouldn't be a problem (Eheim 2080) but with the Fluval FX6 I don't know.
In addition, my fish sometimes have slight scratches from the stones and that should also be questionable with formalin ...

Kind regards,
Mario
Madness
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Re: formalin and plastic?

of Ioan C. » 02.05.2018 11:38

Moin, the scratch should be taken seriously! If the fish injure themselves during treatment and are not taken out immediately, they will die.

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Re: formalin and plastic?

of Zoooo » 03.05.2018 21:37

I would exchange hoses ..... is less effort and safer

I would not use formalin in the apartment .... (I'm a specialist) unless you ensure very good ventilation (open the window and put in the fan) enter with a breathing mask .... the catch is the bathtub! Large water surface more evaporation surface! If you want to work with formalin, get a plastic box. Fill, put the lid on and rest is :)

it will also be with chloramine T. Slowly raise the water ... and when the salt is in the pool, ventilate the apartment properly

Don't get cancer right away ... but headaches and nausea can occur. I emphasize> can

I used chloramine T in my first smaller pool (200l) and carried out the treatment three times with success. However, leave the living room for the day and leave the balcony door open.


If you have smaller items, check for heat resistance. You can even wet the objects and put them in the microwave ... after all, hamsters do not survive in it either (water molecules are set in motion so it gets hot and boiled)
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Re: formalin and plastic?

of Water purifierAC » 03.05.2018 22:37

Hello Mario,

if Tremazol did not bring any improvement, I consider the suspicion of gill worms very doubtful. I think you won't have any success with formalin either. You need a proper report, anything else on suspicion is just cheese. ChloraminT can easily be used in the living room, it only smells very slightly, but only after a clear diagnosis with a microscope. It could be anything, bacterial or parasitic.

LG
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Re: formalin and plastic?

of Madness » 04.05.2018 19:43

Hello!
That went well with the scratch, but one fish was weakened by the worms on the skin (had white spots) and as a result it was dead within 2 hours.
And another one who was injured by other people's attacks died too!
In addition, 3 fish have clouded eyes. I am very upset with how aggressive the formalin is!
Now I want to use Cloramin T for the 2 other treatments and got it today.
It is from animalone and the active ingredient is 33.3% Cloramine T. Do I now have to use 3 times the amount?
So if 2 grams come to 100 liters, take 6 grams?
I am now a little insecure ... https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B072HW ... UTF8 & psc = 1

Kind regards,
Mario
Madness
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Re: formalin and plastic?

of Madness » 05.05.2018 22:09

Hello,
Today, on the 2nd day after the treatment, the chafing has become much less, but they still do it relatively often.
Should also take a while .....
What about touching water with formalin? Got in touch with it quite often. Hardly any other way, had the cover panes in the bathtub and with the aquarium I had to constantly wipe the edges and the tops of the bars ...

Can anyone help me with my question ^^^^ about the 33.3% Cloramin T? Will probably only be 1/3 in there, but I don't want to overdose 3 times if not ....?
In any case, I would rather continue to use the chloramine, because the vapors are not without, very sharp!

Kind regards,
Mario
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Re: formalin and plastic?

of Ioan C. » 05.05.2018 22:44

Mario wrote:Hello, what about touching water with formalin?
Gloves ?!
Mario wrote:Can anyone help me with my question ^^^^ about the 33.3% Cloramin T? Will probably only be 1/3 in it, but I don't want to overdose 3 times if not ....?
Ask manufacturer or veterinarian? ("I don't know, but I think ...") would be a pretty stupid answer!
Mario wrote:... the vapors are not even without, very sharp when dispensing!
How do you come to that?

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